Anyone familiar with the VW Jetta diesel? Pretty much the best mileage for a non hybrid (40+). Mostly I'd want a wagon for road trips (and, for the same size, can't do much better on long road trips since the electrical motor won't kick in. I'll still have a 4x4 for hunting, etc.

rg

Know a few guys with them in the sedan and wagon. They like them quite a bit. 45 mpg for a wagon is darn good too. Heard mixed results on vw's in general, specifically their electrical systems. Consumer reports doesn't rate them as high as subaru for dependability, but there are VW devotees out there who swear by them.

As in all things, caveat emptor.

I saw a commercial the other day that mentioned something like 56 mpg for the 2009s. I think that was for the Sedan, though, not the Wagon.

My wife drives a gas Jetta, so can't speak for the deisel, but she really likes hers. She gets about 30 highway/27 city. Ben's right about the electrical system, though. The "check engine" light came on right after we bought it and we've had it in the shop 4 different times trying to get it fixed before I finally just gave up and ignored it. If we had a VW dealer here in Butte, I may have pursued it further, but I was getting sick of driving to Bozeman every few weeks to have them tell me that they fixed it, only to have the stupid light come back on over Homestake pass on my way back to Butte. Other than the light being an annoyance, though, the car runs perfectly. We just got back from taking the kids to Seattle for a week and had no problems with it. Plenty of room for all of our luggage, and pretty comfortable, or at least as comfortable as you can hope for on a 10 hour drive with a 3 year old and a 10 month old.

BTW, ours is a Sedan, not the Wagon.

that is what I hear about them too.

butteguy - get one of those computer scanners you plug into the computer - it will tell you what is wrong with the car (without having to "trust" the dealer - oxymoron I know). Much of the time you can google the codes and fix the stuff yourself. my light came on in my Rodeo AFTER I brought it to the service station for a 100K checkup and changes. the light comes on ion the cold, but not in the summer. as much as that CEL is a warning it is just as much a pain in the arse.

Thanks, Brandon, I'll look into that.

Isn't that what the dealer would have done, though, is plug it into their scanner? They told me that it was something with my spark plugs, so they replaced them. Then, 2 weeks later they told me it was my starter, so they replaced that. Then, it was, oh christ, I don't remember...The 4th time they told me it was my starter, though, and I told them they just replaced that a month ago. "Yep, I guess we did, didn't we?" was the response I got. That was when I said screw you guys I'm not driving another 100 miles over here to have you tell me there's nothing wrong with my car. Luckily, all of this was on warranty, so all I had to pay was the gas to get there. I've dealt with the light being on for about 3 years now, and nothing bad has happened, so I'm not too worried about it.

BTW, Rob, all of this was happening at the VW dealership in Bozeman. Just lettin' you know, since I assume that's where you'd get one if you decide to buy a Jetta.

That is exactly what they do - plug in the scanner - but you can't see the results, and you don't really know what they are doing to fix it. For instance, I owned a Volvo and that thing had so many issues - they were fixing stuff left and right. The battery, no the fuel pump, no the ... - none of these things could be related! Without seeing the scanner you don't know if they are BS'ing you. What you do is you scan yourself, then bring it to the dealer - when they tell you your "fuel pump" is bad, then you can say - How does code "SC0001" relate to a fuel pump when I googled it and it has to do with my hubcaps? You get the point.

My truck was having issues where the 4th Cylinder was having a misfire - I didn't scan the thing until after they replaced the Exhaust/Air Valve for $600. They were BSing me. The car, when cold, just triggers the CEL to go off, but after it misfires once or twice, it is fine - I replaced the plug, coil, etc. so not much else could have been wrong with it.

I'm paraphrasing my experience, but you see the point. These scanners are about $150, but worth every penny, especially when you need it on your other car, or your friends want to borrow it (thanks Naffets!), or you just want the truth.

BigTree has one of them, and it's pretty impressive. The thing hauls azz and he has the tickets to prove it. Main problem I see is that it costs a bunch of money to set up a towing package on it. Supposedly have to purchase a 300 - 500 dollar box to handle the trailer wiring so that it doesn't blitz the computer system. His is pretty cool, since it came with an electric guitar, and a built in amp in the car so that he can jam while driving down the road - cool huh!

If there is a checker or autozone close by they are pretty good about plugging in and scanning the codes for free too. I'm not sure if they will reset the cel but they should be able too and if you get your own then you can do that too.

Most codes are general and can be found on the internet as to what they specifically mean.

Couldn't say it any better!

I never thought of towing. How would it do for towing a boat (drift or otherwise)?

i have a few friends that have jettas, TDI and gas. they seem very hit or miss. a certain friend's wife had a late 90's gas that ran well for a long time. it developed electrical problems late in life and turned into a major pain in the aspen. they replaced it with a TDI. it was a problem almost from the start. the turbo dropped all the oil which caused a good amount of damage to the engine. after a lot of work by the dealer to fix said damage, they got it back, and it seems to be doing fine now. it gets insane mileage. i filled it up for him once - 52mpg on that tank! definitely wouldn't try to tow a drift boat with it, but a small raft maybe.....

we recently replaced an old volvo wagon in advance of a baby arriving. it was between a TDI jetta wagon and a forester. if it helps in your decision making, we went with a forester because of the unreliable reputation of the jettas. we have not been disappointed so far, other than the fuel mileage difference between the two.

Because of all the torque of the diesel they ready tow things well!

I tow a boat with my little 2.2L suby, not a problem at all. Just have to be careful about the tranny if you have an auto. Drive slow/smooth, manually downshift for climbing, and give extra braking time.

About the computer discussion, those code readers are the start of the diagnostic process. Sometimes they can lead directly to the fix needed, but esp with the newer cars it takes a good bit of detective work after getting the codes. A single code can encompass as many as a dozen potential problems; it takes knowhow from there. But mechanics ripping people off is a huge problem, so anything you can do to educate yourself is great.

The one thing I can say about VW, being a suby owner whose best friend is a topnotch suby mechanic who has also owned, rebuilt, and worked on tons of VW's is that they are inconsistent. I would characterize VW thru the last three decades as trying out new engineering ideas on factory models. Some worked, some didnt, so certain models/certain years can be real lemons, other models/years can be real solid. Finally, as far as getting work done...or trying to do it yourself, they are WAY more complicated than they need to be. Sorry I cant be more specific and dont know nothing about the late models.

However, looking at it from a mechanics perspective, a car that does what it needs to do as simply and logically as possible, also providing good access to common wear and tear parts is key. These things will also keep repair bills down cause a third of the engine doesnt need removing to fix a water pump or whatever. Mid to late 90's 2.2L subys, both legacys and outbacks have primacy in this dept for AWD wagons and minivans, just ask any suby mechanic worth his salt. The later models 00 thru 04 or so, have had intermittent trouble with head gaskets, esp the 2.5L's.

There are really only three things to consider when troubleshooting car problems, fire, fuel, and air. The rest is just how the components, computer(s) and sensors affect those three factors. It isn't rocket science, and it doesn't take a mystic to figure things out.

The new 2009 clean diesel looks like a pretty sweet rig:

http://autos.canada.com/news/story.html?id=1499514